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    Discussion in 'The main mechanical design forum' started by Bobamuntung, Mar 3, 2011.

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    1. Bobamuntung

      Bobamuntung New Member

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      I am by no means an engineer. I am arts trained of all things. However, I came accross something that got my head scratching.

      Why wont http://www.lolpics.se/6400-science this work?

      I hope the answer isnt too obvious... I'll feel a bit daft. It would need development and refining I'm sure.

      Thanks to anyone that takes a look at it.
       
      Bobamuntung, Mar 3, 2011
      Bobamuntung, Mar 3, 2011
      #1
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    3. GarethW

      GarethW Chief Clicker Staff Member

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      The 1st law of thermodynamics state that energy can't be created or destroyed, but only changed to different forms. In the case of this, the energy generated would annoyingly be lost via heat (friction).
       
      GarethW, Mar 3, 2011
      GarethW, Mar 3, 2011
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    4. GarethW

      GarethW Chief Clicker Staff Member

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      Hey - just a thought....

      ...we could have a Mechanical Design Forum "design a perpetual motion machine" competition or something!!

      or we could all get together and design an "open source" perpetual motion machine :D
       
      GarethW, Mar 3, 2011
      GarethW, Mar 3, 2011
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    5. Bobamuntung

      Bobamuntung New Member

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      So all (haha) we need is a frictionless surface coating?

      You are saying the bubble chain links just wouldnt move at all?

      Thanks for the response to something so frivilous. Just caught my imagination!
       
      Bobamuntung, Mar 4, 2011
      Bobamuntung, Mar 4, 2011
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    6. GarethW

      GarethW Chief Clicker Staff Member

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      I don't think it's frivolous at all - people have been trying to develop them for centuries! I find the concept of perpetual motion pretty facinating - it's mechanical engineering's version of alchemy.

      In the case of the machine you linked to, I think that the seal would stop movement completely. It would need to be very tight to seal effectively.

      Here's a good article you might like to check out:

      Perpetual Futility - A short history of the search for perpetual motion by Donald E. Simanek

      Wikipedia also have some interesting info and images
       
      GarethW, Mar 5, 2011
      GarethW, Mar 5, 2011
      #5
    7. spiceage

      spiceage Member

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      When the last remaining photons finally fizzle in our great universe, we will have nothing to account for time let alone motion. How long is perpetual and how should we define motion? OK, I’ve been watching Prof Brian Cox too!
       
      spiceage, Mar 6, 2011
      spiceage, Mar 6, 2011
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    8. spiceage

      spiceage Member

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      Hi Bobamuntung. I like your graphic, wonderful! It's tough but there is no such thing as a free lunch. Where your chain of air balls passes through the seal at the bottom, the top of each ball is subjected to the highest pressure of the whole chain (because there the water is deepest). That pressure will actually drive the chain in reverse until the thin ligament enters the seal. Then buoyancy will temporarily win out and the chain will go the intended way. The net result is that both tendencies will balance to give you nothing :(
       
      spiceage, Mar 9, 2011
      spiceage, Mar 9, 2011
      #7
    9. shipto

      shipto Member

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      the pressure of the water against the seals would be equal to or greater than the lift gained from the balls.
      thats what i think anyway.
       
      shipto, Mar 9, 2011
      shipto, Mar 9, 2011
      #8
    10. LinkedIn Gopher

      LinkedIn Gopher Little furry chap

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      Here's one for you then:
      A long tube with a semi-permeable membrane closing it's lower end is placed deep into the sea such that it's upper (open) end is just above the surface.
      The membrane allows fresh water to pass but not the salt.
      The tube soon fills with fresh water.
      Because salt water is denser than fresh water, when the pressure across the membrane has equalised the fresh water column will rise above the sea water level.
      If allowed to overflow, you have perpetual water circulation.
      Ha Ha....a gravity perpetual motion machine !!

      Source
       
      LinkedIn Gopher, Mar 23, 2011
      LinkedIn Gopher, Mar 23, 2011
      #9
    11. shipto

      shipto Member

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      If you could invent such a membrane it would not only save the world in the form of free power but also feed the starving by giving them unlimited fresh water for crops, animals etc.
      Of course the oil companies may (sorry make that WOULD) club together to have you killed and all evidence of your work wiped from history.
       
      shipto, Mar 23, 2011
      shipto, Mar 23, 2011
      #10
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