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• # Holy Grail of Mechanical Design?

Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Paul T, Oct 21, 2012.

1. ### Paul TWell-Known Member

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miltronbr, here is the "John Device".

_saRaWSl_Cw

It looks more real than the one you posted, although just an elaborate flywheel?

Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
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3. ### ErichWell-Known Member

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There. I fixed your statement for you.

4. ### Paul TWell-Known Member

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I just came across this statement in my research:

"Newton's 3rd law of motion is always misunderstood and claimed to be an equal and opposite reaction when in reality, the truth is that the forces are divided between two reference points.

For anyone that isn't caught up in dogmatic myths, there is no equal and opposite reaction in both elliptical mechanism in the machine thereby violating Newton's 3rd law of motion the way it is commonly taught because if it applied, each half cycle of the ellipse would buck against the forward motion but it doesn't - it assist the machine in the forward direction.

It is mechanical jujitsu - using a force that could be in opposition to you but you allow for a method to let it help the progress continue in its same direction."

Please can you tell me what you mechanical design engineers make of this?

5. ### miltonbrWell-Known Member

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Maybe a robot fighter. Or other things. But none of them would contradict Newton's laws.

6. ### K.I.S.S.Well-Known Member

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Everything happens for a reason, and that reason is usually physics.
Sorry, no free lunch.

7. ### K.I.S.S.Well-Known Member

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Respectfully, Bollocks...
But I appreciate your sense of humour

8. ### Paul TWell-Known Member

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Here is the latest prototype:

I'm looking at off the shelf 50:1 gearboxes.

Have found one that will handle 150nm for a decent price.

My theory is that moving the centre of gravity of the unbalanced mass uses much less energy than lifting the weight.

When the weights are fixed to the outer edge of the wheels, the inertia will provide enough speed to swing the weights over and make it go too fast so centripetal force slows it down again.

If the kid on the swing keeps getting a little push at the right time, the swing keeps swinging.

My observation is that the one way bearings allow leverage for most of the rotation.

9. ### miltonbrWell-Known Member

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Very good, Paul.
You clearly demonstrated the principle of energy conservation: the energy supplied to manually rotate the mechanism was turning into heat resulting from friction between the various moving parts until the complete stop of the mechanism. The total entropy of the universe increased a little more. But for a good cause.
By the way, sorry for the disqualification of England football team.
By the way, Brazil team remains.

10. ### Paul TWell-Known Member

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Notice how the more 1kg pendulum weights are added the faster it goes?

If the inventor is genuine in this video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6l1cojripb9pmrm/Inertia deflects.mp4?dl=0

That his device is in runaway then I'm about to prove once and for all, that when a certain speed is reached the existing inertia from once rotation is enough to pump the wheel around at a faster speed than when it started.

This would meet Bessler's quote:

"The internal structure of the machine is of a nature according to the laws of mechanical perpetual motion, so arranged that certain disposed weights, once in rotation, gain force from their own swinging, and must continue this movement as long as their structure does not lose its position and arrangement."
- Johann E. E. Bessler, 1717

Perpetual Motion?

Utter the words today, and you are likely to be labeled anything from a dreamer to a crackpot. The same was true in Bessler's day. But what did he mean exactly, by "perpetual motion?"

Everything in the universe is in motion. It is evident in the ceaseless flow of rivers, the incessant tides, the movements of the earth and heavenly bodies, the constant motion of atoms and their constituents. From mankind's perspective, these universal motions are perpetual.
...

If by "Perpetual Motion Machine" we mean a device that taps into a natural motion and does work indefinitely without human or animal assistance, the problem is not only solvable but has already been solved in a variety of ways:

Was Bessler's machine, like these, somehow attached to the very wheelwork of nature? The mathematician Jean Bernoulli wrote:

"...any motion which exists in nature can be used to support a perpetual motion. In these instances such machines cannot be regarded as purely artificial perpetual motion, but rather as a combined perpetual motion because their motion is assisted by nature. I am convinced that Bessler's Wheel is of this type."

The engineering company has the steel, the frame will hopefully be ready soon.

FINALLY.....

I want to either stop chasing rainbows or find the gold at the end of one.

I've stuck 4 years of my life into this. Nothing before has had a hold on me like this.

I'm either seriously delluded or right on target.

I know which one you guys think is true.

Not long now folks.....

I just want to get to the point where I don't want to put any more money into it or get it to where every CAD man is running with it.

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
11. ### K.I.S.S.Well-Known Member

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Hi Paul T,

There seems to be a disambiguation at play here - 'perpetual motion' machines are indeed commonplace, and work through the boundless energy that our planet can provide.
What you are actually referring to is a 'free energy' machine, of which there are none.
I'm curious - does the machine add it's own 1Kg weights?
By the way, a nuclear breeder reactor does NOT generate more fuel than it consumes - it simply generates more Plutonium than is initially inserted into the reactor, and it does this through sacrificing certain other fuel rod elements. It was designed to assist in the creation of nuclear weapons. And all the other examples you list are 'perpetual motion', being assisted through thermodynamic entropy either directly or indirectly.

Sorry.

K.I.S.S.