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  • Holy Grail of Mechanical Design?

    Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Paul T, Oct 21, 2012.

    1. K.I.S.S.

      K.I.S.S. Well-Known Member

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      And so, perhaps realisation dawns...
      We now have a simple torque amplifier, as opposed to 'free energy...'
      Erich, do you have a sadistic streak within you? I ask simply because you have been a consistent exponent of conventional physics within the context of this thread, and now it would appear that you are encouraging an impossible dream through non explicit recommendations, with concurrent financial implications for the poster.
      Why would you do that?
      And to quote yourself;
      "Well, here we are in 2015. As we enter this new year the laws of thermodynamics and Newtonian mechanics are all still in force and the perpetual motion machine is still an unrealizable dream of many."
      If you are a professional in your field, then I seriously think that you should reconsider your engagement with Paul T.
      Yes, it's good to have a bit of fun, but not at the expense of someone who seeks sincere advice for a fruitless cause that will cost them more money.
       
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    3. Erich

      Erich Well-Known Member

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      Sarcasm is just one of the services I offer. But in this case I am offering advice on how he can fix the breaking bolt issue with his mechanism. With all those heavy weights swinging and banging around there are a lot of dynamic loads to make things get loose and break. It takes good engineering to design and build a mechanism that survive those kinds of loads for a long time. That said he doesn't need to design a long lived device to prove the concepts, If it ran for 10 minutes and collapsed the experiment would be a success if he collected sound data that showed the device producing power from "nowhere".

      All that said, I believe he is on a quest for the impossible. His device isn't going to create anything from gravity.

      If I can offer advice that will keep him from being injured when a heavy metal chunk flies off his contraption, then I am doing good.

      Others have expounded at great length on the fruitlessness of his quest and he is not interested in hearing that anymore.

      Maniacal Engineers replies in posts 7, 34 and 38 have been eerily prescient.
       
    4. K.I.S.S.

      K.I.S.S. Well-Known Member

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      It would appear so... Is Irony another of them? You know the stuff, it's like Goldy and Silvery, just not as expensive...
      The best advice to be offered in this instance is to not have the swinging and banging taking place in the first instance - but as you say, there is no communicating with a closed mind. It's always easier to perpetuate a lie than to convince someone that they have been lied to...
      Regarding the testing of the device, even two complete cycles without any diminished rpm measurement would be significant, but that isn't going to happen without some input assistance.
      And as Maniacal Engineer said - 'Don't bet the farm on it' So, if you consider that to be prescient, then I wouldn't consider providing unproven and untested advice with regard to shaft shear and deformation characteristics relative to increasing the diameter of a threaded hole as 'doing good'. But that's just me - I understand your intent and quite frankly, I think that the hole thing is a lost cause...[​IMG]
       
    5. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      After getting to the point of crunch time to buy an alternator and working out the torque needed to gear up 60rpm so it can be useful I recognise that this is a better design as it can be turned much faster and is still taking advantage of centrifugal force, gravity and leverage but at much higher RPMS.


      I see this as a high RPM mechanical torque amplifier.

      Need to make this very strong indeed.

      Or maniacalengineers design with the magnets instead of a motor. That would definately work 100%.






      Can anyone see how this design is supposed to work?[​IMG]
       
    6. Erich

      Erich Well-Known Member

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      So you are getting to the point of really proving a design can work and you are going to punt and start over with a CAD sketch?

      I can see no possible way that will work.
       
    7. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Please bear in mind the main axle would be driven by a motor and the other side would feature an alternator.

      Or the prototype could use an off the shelf motor/generator all in one to increase the efficiency.


      The Solidworks CAD man at the engineering company that is working at cost with me drew this in Solidworks.

      Remember It was his invention after seeing one of my prototypes that this forum helped me to build.

      Don't forget folks, this isn't no mickey mouse company. They have seen, felt and also listened to my ramblings.

      They are good enough to get the contract to cut the armour plating and ballistics for the armoured Land Rovers and Jaguars that get shippeded to diplomats etc worldwide.

      Why on earth would they be working with me on this at cost?

      Come on behave yourselves!!!


      A one way bearing is clamped inside the arms.

      He has taking the working principle of adding torque to the outside of a flywheel at low speed, putting it on steroids and made it work at high speed.

      I watched it's movement in the Solidworks Premium sim with gravity on when it was spun.

      The weights rocked backwards and forwards, all of them did.

      This means it must be ratcheting the flywheel whilst adding bags of torque.

      Granted the flywheel in the CAD picture is not heavy compared to what it could be.

      This is different to just turning a flywheel as it has planets adding torque to its rotation through leverage and with gravity and centrifugal/centripetal assisting. Well that's how I saw it and how he saw it.


      I'd go in multiple directions with this if I had the money, but its coming out of my pocket so I have to go for the fastest way to move away from the current way we get electricity globally.

      We know that if we get a motor and passive flywheel we get a loss.

      Therefore what the research shows is that an active flywheel does not have a loss, it is an amplifier if built correctly.

      Bessler's device that was apparently locked in a castle and ran for months before checking to see if it was still running and it still was.

      Bessler's wheel was supposed to picking up a man easily when they held onto the wheel.

      It also apparently ran at a speed slower than 60rpm.

      I did the maths on the torque and gearing only recently and realised that having 1000ft lbs at 60rpm ain't going to give us the amplification we want from centrifugal/centripetal/gravity assistance.

      I also realised that eliminating the gearbox was going to be a great idea.

      Once I got my head around this I realised the answer may be just staring me in the face with Dave the Solidworks wizards design.

      Why won't it work?

      Why won't those weights oscillate back and forth ratcheting on the outer edge of a flywheel?
       
      Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
    8. miltonbr

      miltonbr Well-Known Member

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      I hope they also have good mechanical engineers for the sake of the diplomats.

      "Why on earth would they be working with me on this at cost?": money is money.
       
    9. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      What you said doesn't make sense.

      In the UK working at cost means the company does the work for the price is costs them literally in materials and electricity.

      They have got two 3 phase 415v supplies that are nearly maxed out, so have a vested interest in what I am doing.

      I'm not paying for the wear and tear of their tooling, their time, their design.

      All has been done for free.

      How is that money is money dude?
       
      Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    10. miltonbr

      miltonbr Well-Known Member

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      It's a good question. I can imagine some possibilities:
      1. For most companies working at cost does not exactly mean working at cost;
      2. When the company has idle capacity, any paid work reduces its fixed costs;
      3. Someone in the company thinks you're a nice guy and a misunderstood genius;
      4. No one in the company understands the laws of thermodynamics.
      5. The owner of the company loves to drink beer and discuss football with you ... and wants to remain your friend.
      Anyway, the company does not lose anything. After all it is your money.
       
    11. K.I.S.S.

      K.I.S.S. Well-Known Member

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      Company, or employee of the Company in their spare time using Company assets and a key to the workshop...?
      And it's a bit indiscreet of you to mention them so specifically, Paul T.
      I'd be very interested to have a look at the maths you did on the torque and gearing (I'm sure we all would) - perhaps therein the solution lies as to your question 'Why won't it work'?
      You've previously asked us to forget everything we know about physical laws etc.. But now it seems as though you're placing some reliance on them... That's good - not for your dream, but hopefully for your pocket..
      Posted with the best intentions, promise.
      K.I.S.S.
       

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