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  • Holy Grail of Mechanical Design?

    Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Paul T, Oct 21, 2012.

    1. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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    3. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      NB: The current draw does not increase proportionally to the weight increase.


      Why?

      Because the swing is being assisted by centrifugal force.

      Moving a weight already in motion is easier than moving a stationary weight.


      Try and push a heavy car with it stationary.

      Now try the same with it moving.
       
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    4. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      This is the best thing about open source. Anyone can have a say, good or bad.

      Dave your idea has just given me another.

      Coincidence it a combination of yours and another Dave from the engineering company I have been working with.

      Why not use leverage assisted by centrifugal force, gravity and centripetal force?

      [​IMG]

      This is the type of permanent magnet alternator I have in mind...... couldn't afford anything that high kw though for a proof of concept.




      Here is a list of what they offer:

      Estimated prices of the current generators with magnets (assumed Euro rate: 4.00zł)

      Please note that the prices are exclusive of VAT and that you
      need to add VAT 23%, (if you dont have an EU VAT number)



      Please ask us about price, as there is a difference between 230/400V and 380/660V

      Generators 1500rpm/950rpm/ 750rpm 230/400V over 5kw are about 8-20% more expensive (depending on size)

      The weight can be different, as we use cast iron, and aluminium motors.



      1500rpm 50Hz 3x380V / 3x660V


      2kw - 3000zł (750 Euro) – 16kg 230/400V

      4,5kw – 3600zł (900 Euro) – 26kg 230/400V

      7,5kw - 4200zł (1050 Euro) – 44kg

      11kw - 4700zł (1125 Euro) – 53kg

      15kw - 5800zł (1450 Euro) – 105kg

      20kw - 6800zł (1700 Euro) – 120kg

      30kw – 10.500zł (2625 Euro) – 180kg

      50kw – 14.000zł (3500 Euro) – 300kg

      62kw – 16.500zł (4125 Euro) – 350kg

      100kw – 22.000zł (5050 Euro) – 500kg

      150kw – 35.000zł (9250 Euro) – 800kg





      750rpm 50Hz 3x380V / 3x660V


      1kw - 2900zł (725 Euro) - 15kg 230/400V

      3kw - 4000zł (1000 Euro) - 25kg 230/400V

      4kw - 4500zł (1125 Euro) - 35kg 230/400V

      5kw - 5500zł (1375 Euro) - 50kg 230/400V

      7,5kw - 6500zł (1625 Euro) - 80kg

      12kw - 8000zł (2000 Euro) – 125kg

      15kw – 18.500zł (4625 Euro) – 180kg

      24kw – 21.500zł (5375 Euro) – 250kg

      35kw – 25.000zł (6250 Euro) – 300kg

      45kw – 29.500zł (7375 Euro) – 470kg





      400rpm 50Hz 3x230V / 3x400V


      3kw - 7000zł (1750 Euro) - 100kg

      4kw - 7500zł (1875 Euro) - 110kg

      5kw - 10.000zł (2500 Euro) - 170kg

      8kw - 16.000zł (3900 Euro) - 220kg

      12kw - 23.000zł (5750 Euro) - 300kg

      15kw – 25.000zł (6250 Euro) - 360kg




      250rpm 33 -50Hz 3x230V / 3x400V


      6kw - 16.000zł (4000Euro) – 220kg

      8kw - 22.000zł (5500 Euro) – 350kg

      12kw - 27.000zł (6750 Euro) – 450kg




      120rpm 25Hz 3x230V / 3x400V


      5kw - 25.000zł (5000Euro) – 360kg

      8kw - 30.000zł (7500 Euro) – 460kg
       
      Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
    5. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Reminds me of:

       
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    6. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      One of the inventors earlier versions with window wiper motors.

       
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    7. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      This was the circuit used:

       
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    8. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      I haven't bothered to upload to youtube yet.

      What I am thinking of doing with this one is adding another flywheel, chopping the weights in half. Having 8 pendulums all 45 degrees offset.

      Let me know what you think [​IMG]

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8iubl4ik0mcil8/20150309_175009.mp4?dl=0

      Might just go for the 4 big pendulums first to see what happens.

      Will it double the length of time it runs or will it be less than double or more than double? [​IMG]
       
    9. Dave Archer

      Dave Archer Active Member

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      The problem is that the motors would need more energy to drive them than the whole contraption would generate, so the net resulting rotary movement would be Zero.

      Best give up now while you have some money left !! :rolleyes:
       
    10. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Please watch and comment with your opinion on the video.


      When a motor is mated 1:1 with a generator it cannot make more out than in. This we know as a fact.


      When a motor is levered using mass, inertia, gravity, centrifugal and centripetal forces it is not coupled 1:1

      The inventor has a Russian patent and has been invited into
      RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF AGRICULTURAL SCIENCES

      STATE SCIENTIFIC INSTITUTION
      ALL-RUSSIAN SCIENTIFIC-RESEARCH INSTITUTE
      FOR ELECTRIFICATION OF AGRICULTURE

      http://viesh.ru/

       
      Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
    11. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Hi everyone!

      I've bit the bullet and ordered these:

      http://store.mwands.com/permanent-m...edom-ii-hydro-pmg-permanent-magnet-generator/

      [​IMG]

      http://store.mwands.com/combination...ntroller-with-divert-relay-led-meter-for-wind-

      [​IMG]

      I am going to see what the machine can do in current form.

      The torque is substantial considering it only has 2 pendulums / levers.

      I was observing some very large wind turbines on my drive home today and it struck me that they work using leverage.

      If you think of a combustion engine it is also using leverage.

      This is the pulley I will be using with the PMG:

      http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/SPA630_2_V_Pulley-4627-p

      So nearly 8:1

      Roughly around 480RPM.

      [​IMG]

      Also have one of these kicking around:

      [​IMG]

      Was going through the inventor's old website the other night and here is some text I feel is important:

      "Any moving with acceleration or a rotating system (in a general case developing in space and time) should contain an oscillator in its basis. The higher the frequency of this basic oscillator, the more energy (in our scale perception) can be received in the system output. No internal oscillator means no accelerated movement, no rotation, no system (it simply does not function). It is a basic principle which all natural phenomena are subordinate to, along with all nature’s mechanisms and systems functioning, including social ones."

      Basically the reason what I have so far does not self oscillate is because the frequency is not high enough.

      I believe there is a good reason why Mikhail didn't show 32 weights in this video:



      Why did he invest so much money into the next prototypes???

      It stands to reason that adding more pendulums to what I have will make it accelerate faster. We also know that prototype 11's discovery was that the inertia could do the job of the kicking wheel.

      My plan is to find out if I can beat the record for human power using the device.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_power

      "A trained cyclist can produce about 400 watts of mechanical power for an hour or more, but adults of good average fitness average between 50 and 150 watts for an hour of vigorous exercise. A healthy well-fed labourer over the course of an 8-hour work shift can sustain an average output of about 75 watts.[1] The yield of electric power is decreased by the efficiency of the human-powered generator.[citation needed]

      While some exercise equipment has been fitted with generators, the amount of energy collected is of low value compared to the cost of the conversion equipment."

      I also plan to do a crowd funder soon.

      I didn't want to try it without showing some electricity being generated as the general public wouldn't understand.

      Still deciding on input motor at this stage.

      I have come up with several magnet designs to overcome the use of an input motor.

      Now I need to design a bracket and belt tension adjuster. Then get it fabricated.....


      I reckon I will be able to make more power than the trained cyclist with my hands. Does that prove anything?
       
      Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016

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