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  • Holy Grail of Mechanical Design?

    Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Paul T, Oct 21, 2012.

    1. Strambo

      Strambo Member

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      Paul: No, I must tell you that your silly analysis of my mental state is 100% wrong. You insult me with your statement. I rely on analysis, not faith. Yours is a very, very old idea.

      As for your preference on what other people post on your thread, please understand that I am very smart, successful Mechanical Engineer with over 30 years of experience in a variety of industries, including alternative energy. Your desire to keep the thread positive is clearly at odds with its content. The machine you are proposing is a toy that has no benefit to energy production. You lack a clear, and thorough understanding of thermodynamics, and cannot grasp underlying principles.

      You can contrive an endless variety of rolling balls, swinging weights, overrunning clutches, flywheels and bearings, and only one thing comes of it: Any energy you supply to the contraption is all the energy you get; period. You will always lose some to friction, so you'll get out LESS than you put in. The gizmo dissipates energy, that is, consumes it in irreversible processes. That is how it plays out in the real world, in the history of the thousands of tinkerers that have gone down the same road you are now on. The road leads to a lot of work and frustration until one day you realize that your creation does absolutely nothing useful. Then you will experience cognitive dissonance.

      We've all met people too dim to learn from their own mistakes. Only very smart people can learn from other people's mistakes. Let history bear witness to claims of functionality with such devices.

      Nothing personal in any of my remarks. I am just telling the truth. Someday you'll realize that. I hope you don't spend too much money before then :)

      Good luck,

      -Strambo
       
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    3. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Strambo, unfortunately I can only reply in one big paragraph. I have no idea if I'm the only member to experience this on this forum. I do not have the problem elsewhere. I just think it looks messy and I wanted to point that out beforehand. I apologize that you feel insulted and someday in the near future I know you will see that your mind has been closed during your education to the point where there is no other answer apart from the one that was taught to you by a teacher who also believed what he was teaching was the best answer. I apologise if this offends you further and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way at all. I'm 33, a father of 4 children under 7 and have a mentally ill wife to care for. I have a lot of empathy for other people. I came here for a number of reasons, to deceive people is not one of them. I seek only the truth. Harnessing the wheelworks of nature is an old, old idea and I believe that it is possible other civilizations have done so. I am not religious, nor do I believe in the big band theory. I believe the truth is probably beyond our conscious comprehension at this point. I appreciate you have 30 years experience and you are a successful mechanical engineer. I know you feel strongly about your opinion, you speak passionately about and I know many others reading this thread will share the same opinion as yourself. I could post everything I've researched for the last two years and tell stories about the people I've met and what has happened in my research and development journey, but it's only words and talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words and what I want to show you is a working device that requires no input to produce usable torque. Then, at that point things will get really interesting when the best of the best of the guys who hang out on this forum take the design to the best it can ever be without building in obsolescence. This is my vision, it certainly isn't a hobby and that isn't even my build. I have an unfinished 1:3 scale model of the device on the first page in my kitchen. This isn't the only technology I am involved with. I am involved with far more exotic technologies that would easily fall foul of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act This one could too, which is why I am still here trying to wake you guys up to the fact that edcuation is corrupted too. Here's one of the old, old inventors that had a vision too - Johann Bessler http://www.besslerwheel.com/ - 1745 Bessler, age 65, fell to his death while working on the Fürstenburg windmill. How convenient - He took he secret to the grave. Your never too old to learn something new, but to admit that corruption runs through our education systems at the highest level to prevent our human advancement is just almost impossible to swallow. I didn't really want to go down the conspiracy road. I would much rather post a video of a device that works, that can better our human condition, but unfortunately because you are so experienced in the mechanical design world readers will easily believe you over me any day, without me providing hard evidence. The laws of thermodynamics do only apply to closed systems. I don't know the answer to this but have you been taught that gravity, inertia and centrifugal force are constants? Apart from the laws of thermodynamics, which part of your schooling tells you that energy cannot be amplified with external input? Wind turbines receive forces of nature. Are gravity, inertia and centrifugal force not considered forces of nature? When I have some more money spare, or, when one of my team validates this technology, it will go viral. You guys have the heads up already - this is part of my plan to prevent suppression. It's really not complicated apart from the very huge part about how messed up the world is. The statement I read recently that rings true to me in a very sad way is: "Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroys information, and religions destroy spirituality and power company owners ignore power solutions, that would render them obsolete by empowering the people." I really wish you would just give me the benefit of the doubt and try to help me, help humanity to reach the next phase of advancement. In order for this to happen, the power of the few must be removed via energy and give it freely to the many. Money is not important to me. I've had cars worth $120,000 when times were good. I've been through the greed phase already. Now it's my turn to show the world the truth and awaken the masses by giving them the technology on a plate. I do think the inventor should reap the rewards at some point. For me the reward is knowing that I learnt how ***** up the world is and that I go to my grave knowing that I actually did something about it, instead of living in fear, which I did for a while. I swear on my families lives that I do know genuine inventors that have been genuinely supressed and I'm just not going to take this lying down anymore. Seeing as I cannot today provide enough evidence that this device works, I'm trying to warn you that something is very wrong with the world and why I'm here shouting from the rooftops and pulling the rope. I'm not pulling the rope alone. I have a small team that are working on this when we can. I want to invite you along, but I feel at this point it would be detrimental to our progression being as though you are highly unlikely to accept what I have written here in this post. I really appreciate the advice given so far with the backlash problem. I was considering using multiple one way roller clutch bearings installed at different offsets. Any further ideas are welcome. Is it only that company who sell them Maniacal Engineer? Best regards, Paul. PS. here is a easily researchable invention that has been suppressed by steel industry and big oil corporations for over 70 years. 54vD_cPCQM8 It's not about conspiracy. It is about a group of extremely rich megalomaniacs wanting to make even more money. I'm not having it!
       
    4. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Maniacal Engineer - One of my team asks "They seem like interesting bearings. I've never had any experience with them. It appears that shaft is prevented from going through the entire bearing because the anti-backlash spring mechanism is mounted in one-half of the bearing. Is that correct?" Cheers, Paul
       
    5. maniacal_engineer

      maniacal_engineer Well-Known Member

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      try doing a (shift) enter to get a new line

      if you put a bellcrank arm at an adjustable angle at each of the counterweights then you could throw the weights out with a passive wheel rolling on the outside of your machine, instead of an actively spinning powered wheel on the inside. By carefully choosing the angle of the bellcrank, and the size of the resetting wheel you can reduce the amount of energy necessary to move the counterweights

      this will work far better than the mechanism in the video in which the cloth covered wheel pushes on the compliant rod attached to the weight. That has a lot of wasted energy in sliding friction of the rod against the cloth. However, even with this improvement the system will not run. If you accept the defintion of energy as force (dot) displacment, then a carful analysis of the machine will show that in a complete cycle of the machine there is no net energy gain. Try ing to harvest "gravity energy" is like trying to get poser out of a hill. if there is a stream running down the hill you can capture some of that water's energy, but without sunshine and evaporation to put more water up there, the energy soon runs out.

      If you are independently wealthy then please go ahead and prove to yourself whether this works or not; but if you have a family that needs your financial and emotional support - then by all means put this behind you and do something else. If the theory behind this device is correct then it should work even in a less than perfect incarnation. Sloppy waterwheels still produce useable power. internal combustion engines still run with worn rings and clapped out bearings. If this thing is going to work, it should work even with a little backlash or with a few fewer weights than might otherwise be optimum. If the theory of the machine is correct, then the thing should need a brake to keep it from spinning itself to destruction.
       
    6. maniacal_engineer

      maniacal_engineer Well-Known Member

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      its not a bearing in the traditional sense - it is in fact a flexure. crossed flexible beams, packaged in a cylindrical case. but it works like a limited range bearing
       
    7. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Maniacal Engineer - Thank you for your help, shift enter doesn't work. I think you are right about it not needing to be optimum. I am a perfectionist though and would like to work out any bugs. The inventors build did exactly what you describe. It cascaded until he had to brake it manually. A load or brake is a must to prevent cascading. The gravity adds a positive gain because the freewheel / one way bearing allows the pivot to become a lever when the arm has reached the bottom of it's descent. The reason for the backlash at the bottom is centrifugal force. I think a lot of energy is lost and a negative oscillation is created by the backlash. My aim is to create the simplest version of the device to show the forces at play and how they interact to provide positive amplification. I do have a needing family, we home educate too. I'm lucky that I have set myself up so I don't have to work. My involvement in advancing our human condition via alternative energy is what I enjoy doing in my free time. Our governments or energy companies are never going to help us, we have to help ourselves. Cheers, Paul. PS. I believe with a positive input from you experienced CAD guys, we should have this cracked before next winter.
       
    8. Strambo

      Strambo Member

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    9. maniacal_engineer

      maniacal_engineer Well-Known Member

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      OK, but set yourself a failsafe point, so that you don't go running down a rabbit hole and your family loses their father. There are stirling engines that range from hold in your hand size to large enough power a submarine, and they will run of the heat of your hand or nuclear power in outerspace. But you don't have to build all of those to prove that it works. You can build a small one out of tin cans to prove that the idea is sound.

      Engineering is about good enough and not perfection.

      The most important symbol in all of engineering - the one thing that makes all engineering possible is this - "$". Why? because money (price) is a shorthand way of encoding into any object the effort necessary to produce that object. if there is a cheaper way to do something it means there is an easier way to do that that thing.

      So by all means build a proof of concept machine. But if it doesn't run, don't spend lots of time and effort and money wringing out ever smaller refinements in the hope that it will finally work - unless of course you do so with the full acknowledgement that you are just engaging in a fun and pointless hobby. So... use the no backlash pivots; and make some arms with adjustable bellcranks so you can use a resetter wheel on the inside, or on the outside; have enough counterweights so that there is always one in every phase of the machine (e.g. always one being reset) that way there is no question of not having enough energy to get to the next phase. But if (when) it doesn't work, be prepared to either drop it, or learn enough newtonian physics and calculus to do an in depth analysis to satisfy yourself as to what is really going on.

      I am a PE, licensed by the state to use the title "mechanical engineer" and I take that seriously. If you showed up at my door with a bag of money and asked me to build this, the first thing I would do is tell you that it won't work, and take a couple of hours to work through the free body diagrams and explain why. And then if you still wanted to I would draw up a contract in which I would promise to build it exactly as you want, with payment to be made in advance and not refundable based on non-operability of the machine. But at some point I would quit taking your money if I thought it was hurting your family.
       
    10. maniacal_engineer

      maniacal_engineer Well-Known Member

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    11. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Hi, thank you for the advice.

      I thought I would go back to the start and show you some of the things that made me give this device the benefit of the doubt.

      Here are two simulations that show more output torque than input torque.

      ODf49HtCNj0

      VPHBNWoNWZ0

      They are using a variation of the design on the first page of the thread using motors to extend and retract the arms at the correct time.

      I believe the inventor didn't pursue this direction because of the complications of the design using slip rings.


      His discovery after running the prototype on the first page was that inertia is doing most of the work. This was an unexpected phenomena.

      One of the replicators has built a motor powered unit and the amperage doesn't increase when more weight is added.

      This is another reason why I am so interested in getting professional design help.

      We are now working on a variation that will be able to run with high RPM. Centrifugal force ruins the effect on the earlier prototypes if too high an RPM is reached.

      Best regards,

      Paul
       

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