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  • Holy Grail of Mechanical Design?

    Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Paul T, Oct 21, 2012.

    1. s.weinberg

      s.weinberg Well-Known Member EngineeringClicks Expert

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      And your long posts after that one demonstrate that Tesla had what he considered a fully production ready turbine ready in 1911 to be run off of gasoline. So, yeah, the fact that he's describing this concept in 1909 is not a surprise at all.

      And in case it wasn't 100% clear, the entirety of those posts is describing a motor that would be run off of air flow caused by gas explosions (or steam, or pressurized water), coupled to a method of imparting mechanical work - in his demo unit, this was a pump used to pump water, run by an electric motor.
       
      Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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    3. s.weinberg

      s.weinberg Well-Known Member EngineeringClicks Expert

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      As far as the images - well image, only the first is useful - you added to the older patent, yes, they describe his invention, exactly as I described.

      You'll note 'fig 1' is labelled Buthven's water jet propeller. That is what he was replacing. The water, as I already mentioned, was drawn in from below - which he clearly labels, since that's the critical point he is making.

      His configuration, shown in 'fig 2' has the intake and outlet both in line with the direction of the vessel - which was his major innovation, so that both drawing in and expelling water cause the vessel to move forward.

      He makes this point - his central claim for the entire patent - in the first couple lines of the patent text.
       
    4. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      This is going to need serious proof but I know Tesla was describing "cold steam" as it is the most viscous and his machines run using the principle of adhesion and viscosity.

      The gas Tesla was referring to is nitrogen.

      Again if you did the proper detective work and actually read "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy" rather than firing your opinions you would possibly be on the same page as me.

      I've read that document more than a dozen times.

      Like I said earlier, Tesla has double meanings and writes in code.

      A fellow researcher I know just launched a book about it!

      https://www.amazon.com/dp/1097680673

      It is called:

      The Problem of Increasing Human Energy (annotated): The Tesla Code

      "This book explains what I have called "the Tesla Code"; the way Nikola Tesla communicates his theories and greatest invention with the future. Tesla's most important and famous article "the Problem of Increasing Human Energy" seems at first a vague and philosophical text. Not at all what you'd want to see from the foremost expert on electricity in his days. But this article contains a message that has been long overlooked by everyone searching for his secrets. Nikola Tesla hid his secrets in plain sight"
       
    5. s.weinberg

      s.weinberg Well-Known Member EngineeringClicks Expert

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      I think I've already sufficiently covered the facts of the text, as they are written, but just to add one point:

      Writing a patent in code makes literally no sense. If people can't interpret your patent as you intend, your patent doesn't protect you at all.
      If your intent is to hide your meaning in code, simply don't apply for the patent. Much more secure.
       
    6. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Tesla was far ahead of his time and he knew it! He did describe the invention accurately but uses double meanings in articles regarding the steam turbine, steam engine.

      Because of previous inventions people assume "hot steam".

      This is not a good fluid to use to power the motor if you want to harness adhesion to turn the rotor.

      What is also remarkable about Tesla's fluid motor is the faster it goes the more torque it has!

      Can you tell me what other motors can do this? If there are any, I would like to know their names?


      My research has shown me that the best adhesive fluid to use is "cold steam" and that Tesla dedicated his research to figuring out how to ignite the normally inert nitrogen and this was the gas intended for the combustion turbine. He states in "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy" about his experiments to harness the heat from a mechanically made permanent cold spot and how he doesn't agree with Carnot and Lord Kelvin through his own experiments.

      This is a very small part of "THE PROBLEM OF INCREASING HUMAN ENERGY" 1900 - Nikola Tesla


      "FIRST EFFORTS TO PRODUCE THE SELF-ACTING ENGINE—THE MECHANICAL OSCILLATOR—WORK OF DEWAR AND LINDE—LIQUID AIR.

      Having recognized this truth, I began to devise means for carrying out my idea, and, after long thought, I finally conceived a combination of apparatus which should make possible the obtaining of power from the medium by a process of continuous cooling of atmospheric air. This apparatus, by continually transforming heat into mechanical work, tended to become colder and colder, and if it only were practicable to reach a very low temperature in this manner, then a sink for the heat could be produced, and energy could be derived from the medium. This seemed to be contrary to the statements of Carnot and Lord Kelvin before referred to, but I concluded from the theory of the process that such a result could be attained."
       
    7. s.weinberg

      s.weinberg Well-Known Member EngineeringClicks Expert

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      You are mixing up terms here.

      If you are talking about Telsa's turbine being used as a motor, there is no output torque. You input torque and speed, and get out volumetric flow and pressure.

      If you are talking about using it as a motor, talking about speed vs. torque is basically a red herring. This is simply because the turbine is not the source of motive energy.
      Torque is a function of input pressure, and speed is a function of volumetric flow.
      For a pump with a certain energy input, they are inversely related, so, no the turbine won't increase torque with increased speed. Quite the opposite.

      If you are talking about a pump with constant pressure output, the torque will stay steady, no matter the speed.
      And if you're talking about a pump with constant flow, the speed will stay constant regardless of torque.

      This is like any other pneumatic or hydraulic motor.

      If you are talking about just energy losses or energy extracted from the stream, I'd have to give a bit more thought to this, but the terms you used wouldn't be appropriate.
       
    8. Paul T

      Paul T Well-Known Member

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      Nikola Tesla's fluid pump is a step ahead of the jet engine.

      The jet engine does not like supersonic flow.

      Nikola Tesla designed his engine to harness supersonic flow.

      Imagine if you could harness the energy of continuous sonic boom in a partial vacuum!

      How would you go about calculating the centrifugal stress on a rotor at supersonic air speeds?
       
    9. s.weinberg

      s.weinberg Well-Known Member EngineeringClicks Expert

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      Beyond the general comment that this is all nonsense, a sonic boom is caused by displaced air. A sonic boom in near-vacuum would be - less impressive.
      It would also mean your pump is leaking, as it requires the supersonic object to pass through the pressure front.

      If you're looking for the energy of a sonic boom, google it.

      Wasn't it a few pages ago where you committed to stop posting until you had definitive experimental proof that your device works?

      Not that I really want that. This is amusing
       
    10. suscollege

      suscollege New Member

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