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  • Some design questions from a newbie

    Discussion in '3D rendering gallery' started by COSenna, Jan 30, 2015.

    1. K.I.S.S.

      K.I.S.S. Well-Known Member

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      Hi Dave,
      Nice render, but it looks like the centre screwed in insert is plastic? I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem to have a metallic appearance.
      COSenna said that it will be used for smoking, so that might be an issue, also the lack of a hole in the top to allow for draught.
      If it's likely to be dropped, and if it's used for, ermm, smoking, it might well be, then it might also be an idea to avoid the sharp point at the top, as seen in your rendered section view, but not the exploded working view?
      And the whole concept is still a nightmare to commercialise (no disrespect intended, I'm referring to the concept drawings).
      As zaccutt suggested early in the thread, press fit/snap joint etc. something like that COSenna, would go a long way to a far more industrial scale easily producable product. If it's for smoking something, it's going to have to be cheap...
       
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    3. Dave Archer

      Dave Archer Active Member

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      .
      All parts here are 6062 alloy, except the washer which is nylon 101.
      The colours probably make it look like plastic.

      I did not put a hole in the top cover because the updated drawings don't ask for a hole, there is no text asking for a hole there
      so I assume there is no hole there.

      There is no sharp point on the top, it is an optical illusion, because of the angle of view,
      they are exactly the same parts in both pictures seen from a slightly different angle.

      The entire lower and central part could be made as one piece, that lower thread and washer is a totally unnecessary
      waste of time and effort.
       
    4. COSenna

      COSenna Member

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      I was getting emails after someone had replied but they stopped so I didn't think anyone had replied!

      Dave, I forgot the hole in the drawing but it is supposed to be there, whoops! Also, I am not seeing your renderings as they are broken links? Anyone else? The bottom washer is not unnecessary and absolutely has a purpose. I'm just not willing to share that purpose as it will give away my idea.

      KISS, the snap joint may work, however I would like to be able to take the pieces apart. They need to fit tight but able to be disassembled as well. I had no idea that this would be so hard to make, it's quite discouraging.
       
    5. K.I.S.S.

      K.I.S.S. Well-Known Member

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      COSenna,
      We're a fickle bunch, and sometimes people over commit themselves - it's just human nature at work. Sometimes people just like to show off their knowledge, but then become reluctant to see things through when they realise that they are basically working for nothing (which, in essence, they are in this instance). You're going to have to accept the reality that you require professional assistance, and that it comes with a price tag of some nature - that could be an hourly rate, or some form of dividend should the product be successful. Nothing is for free, but don't be overly discouraged as this is all part of the design cycle for any product.
      My advice to you would be to elicit the services of a freelance product designer that is prepared to sign a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) and hopefully be convinced by your idea to the extent that they will commit themselves to fulfilling it to at least a DFM (Design For Manufacture) status.
      There's lot's of people out there that do this sort of thing - try Freelancer.com for a start. You just have to convince them that they're also going to get something out of the pot when it's full... All the best of luck.

      K.I.S.S.
       
    6. Dave Archer

      Dave Archer Active Member

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      Hi CoSenna,

      I did not use any links to any external files and pictures ....... I have placed two pictures of the renderings in the post page.
      They show up under the text.

      However yesterday, and today, the pictures are not there.
      I reload the web site, and the pictures are back again.
      Sometimes the pictures load with the text and are there to see, sometimes they are not.

      This is a crap website.

      Try reloading the site.

      dave
       
    7. Dave Archer

      Dave Archer Active Member

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      Hi Cosenna,

      I have now loaded the pictures to my own website,

      Go to ......

      http://www.davyarcher.com/PROJECT/

      You can open pictures .... Assembly 3 - 7.jpg from there.

      dave
       
      Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
    8. COSenna

      COSenna Member

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      KISS, thank you for all your help and input. You're a gentleman and a scholar!

      Dave, that looks pretty damn perfect. I am worried though that this initial design would be to expensive to manufacture as stated by many of the members here.

      How close is say, a 3D model and assembly of these pieces to being manufactured? What would be the next step I would take with your render if that is what I wanted to do? I'm just trying to get an overview of the entire process.
       
    9. Dave Archer

      Dave Archer Active Member

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      prototype



      This is CNC lathe stuff.
      There is a lot of work involved here.

      I know that this job would take a long time just to set up ready to run, and there are several set ups, and also the cost of a fixture to hold the curvy bit, perhaps.
      Or at least the cost of a new set of lathe soft jaws bored out to fit the job.

      And the cost of the materials.

      For these three parts, just as a first rough prototype, without all the fancy polishing and colour anodising,
      the cost is going to be over US $ 700.

      Even in a final production run of 100 of each part, the cost of each complete unit is going to be around US $ 80 - 100.

      Then there is the polishing and anodising costs.

      Go around to a few engineering companies with a printout of those pictures and ask for a quote. :D

      dave
       
    10. K.I.S.S.

      K.I.S.S. Well-Known Member

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      Hi COSenna,

      You're very welcome - I wish I could be of more practical assistance, but unfortunately I simply don't have the time at the moment.
      However, perhaps I can offer one last piece of potentially cost saving advice - DMLS 3D prototyping does have its limitations, and your threads are one of those limitations. But if a little extra material is added to the CAD model of your parts so that no thread material is removed, and you add additional clamping material to all three of the components, then they can all be 'grown' and then clamped in a lathe chuck to have the threads machined, the support walls machined and then parted off from their clamping stock. On reflection, that's how I'd do it.
      Not sure where you're based, but CRPM in Bloemfontein, South Africa will provide you with a 24hr DMLS service, put the parts in a courier service bag for you and then send you the invoice after you get the parts! I would estimate that in this way you could at least halve the CNC costs that Dave has estimated.
      Hope this helps.

      All the best,

      K.I.S.S.
       
    11. COSenna

      COSenna Member

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      $80-100 is FAR over what I was hoping. I need it to be under 10 dollars each. In fact I was hoping for around $3. This is very confusing to me as I have seen parts like this before for smoking devices. In fact I own one!

      [​IMG][​IMG]

      As as you can see, the pipes are all meant to have caps. The top pic is the pipes with the cap and the bottom pic is pipes without caps. You can see the female threads inside the bowl.

      Either one of these pipes sells for about $10 bucks. How do they get their cost down so much if female threading is so expensive? There just has to be another way.
       

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