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• # What follows is an off-the-wall idea

Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Justcurioustwo, Nov 9, 2019.

1. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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1. yes
2. yes
3. maybe (where are you filling your balloon - at the top or at the bottom?)

Perhaps the biggest thing you're missing is that you are looking at a moment in time when 9 of your 10 balloons are already full, and ignoring how they got that way.
Yes, at such a moment in time, you have more energy in your system than you are actively putting in.
But you already spent that energy filling your balloons and/or getting them down to the bottom of your device.

If you count the original energy spent 'priming' your device, you will always be in the negative.

2.
3. ### JustcurioustwoActive Member

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I believe; in an electrical concept it is the difference between volts and watts.
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4. ### JustcurioustwoActive Member

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You only have to "prime" the system once; -

5. ### JustcurioustwoActive Member

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I wish you and yours the best for all times to come

6. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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And that energy accounts for the entirety of the energy in the system. Which negates the thrust of your questions.
In a perfect system, you can extract exactly what you put in, plus the amount in the system (which you paid for during priming). You will never take out more than you have put in.
And your system won't be perfect, so you'll be losing out.

7. ### JustcurioustwoActive Member

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Question- at any one moment in time, is the output energy larger than the energy needed to sustain the system?

The benefit of this machine is it’s multiplying effect.

1 an enclosed container (X) of air submerged in water has a lifting force (Y) equal to the volume of the water displaced minus the weight of the container; [yes] [no]

[2] connection multiple containers one on top of the other creates a combined lifting force of (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)

Which is a greater lifting force than (Y); [yes] [no]

8. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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There is no multiplying effect. There is the effect that if you put energy in something, it doesn't disappear a moment later.
It's like saying: "I gave a ball a kick. A second later, it has enough energy to move without me putting any energy in. It's a multiplier!"

You are willfully ignoring the energy you have embedded in your system during setup, which accounts for the entirety of the imbalance a bit later.

Assuming your system was perfect, which it wouldn't be, you could only extract even a tiny bit of energy more than you are actively inputting until those tiny bits add up to the energy you expended during set up, and not a drop more. At that point, your system would not have any more energy within it than it takes to keep it going.

Get yourself a tub of water, some balloons, a couple of pulleys, a string and an air supply and try it out

9. ### JustcurioustwoActive Member

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I am totally aware of the laws of conservation of energy. What this system does is convert one form of energy into another with some lose in the process.

We have—
Mechanical energy
Wind energy
Heat energy
Wave energy
Light energy
Atomic energy
A rising, expanding bubble of air underwater

All the above forms of energy can be converted into electrical energy and it is this electrical energy that powers todays civilizations. I agree there is a lose of energy in the process but that lose is acceptable when the ultimate energy output is a positive one.

At least that is how I see it

10. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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Atomic energy? Lol.

Your system doesn't make use of at least half of your list. Which is mostly irrelevant, as the part that is the core is that little elevator bit, which will lose power.

However you generate power upstream, simply don't connect it to the balloon bit, and you'll be ahead.

Happy New Year

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