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• # What follows is an off-the-wall idea

Discussion in 'The Leisure Lounge' started by Justcurioustwo, Nov 9, 2019.

1. ### JustcurioustwoWell-Known Member

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Yes, they rise, all ten (10) of them lifting together which creates more lifting force than one rising.

Principles to run the machine

These are a few basic principles

 an enclosed container (X) of air submerged in water has a lifting force (Y) equal to the volume of the water displaced minus the weight of the container;

 connecting multiple containers one on top of the other creates a combined lifting force of (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)
Which is a greater lifting force than (Y);

 the energy needed to fill one container is equal to the energy needed to sustain the combined lifting force of the 10 (ten) containers referenced above; -

2.
3. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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We've been over and over why it doesn't work.
Heck, on page 5, you admitted you were wrong.

1 balloon or 10 balloons or 1000 balloons, it doesn't affect the energy balance.
You put in energy filling any number of balloons. They rise, using up that energy.

That's all there is.

You fill a balloon - you're now in 1 balloon energy deficit.
Take a snapshot as you fill the 10th, and the first hits the surface.

You've filled 10 balloons. You are 10 balloons in deficit.
In a theoretically perfect world, you can have extracted 1 full balloon, 9/10 of a 2nd, 8/10 of a 3rd, etc.

You can have extracted 5.5 balloons of energy max. 4.5 remain in the system. All together, they equal the 10 you've spent. In reality, the energy you can extract will be less.

Fill another balloon.
You're one more balloon in debt. So you're 5.5 baloons in debt, can have extracted 5.5, and 5.5 remain in the system.

Wait one more movement and fill another. You're one baloon in debt, can have extracted 1/10 each from 10 baloons, and 5.5 still in the system.
You're still breaking even, in a perfect world. In the real world, you're more and more in energy debt

4. ### JustcurioustwoWell-Known Member

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Maybe I am missing something here but until proven otherwise the following is the reason this machine is unique.

Principles to run the machine

 an enclosed container (X) of air submerged in water has a lifting force (Y) equal to the volume of the water displaced minus the weight of the container;

 connection multiple containers one on top of the other creates a combined lifting force of (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)

 the energy needed to fill one container is equal to the energy needed to sustain the combined lifting force of the 10 (ten) containers referenced above minus the energy needed to keep it running.

The torque force is increased ten (10) fold.

5. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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You are (willfully) missing something, and it has (abundantly) been proven otherwise.

But, wait! I have an even better machine.

I fill one baloon and put it underwater. I let it go.
A second later, it has buoyant force lifting it, and there is...get this...ZERO energy input at that time!

Infinite free energy!

6. ### DanaWell-Known Member

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When you propose something that violates the generally accepted laws of physics, the burden of proof is on you.

Something to think about: All those balloons that are already on the way up at various depths: where did the energy come from to get them there?

You need to learn the difference and relationship between force, energy, and power.

7. ### JustcurioustwoWell-Known Member

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Principles to run the machine

 an enclosed container (X) of air submerged in water has a lifting force (Y) equal to the volume of the water displaced minus the weight of the container;

 connection multiple containers one on top of the other creates a combined lifting force of (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)

Which is a greater lifting force than (Y);

 the energy needed to fill one container is equal to the energy needed to sustain the combined lifting force of the 10 (ten) containers referenced above minus the energy needed to keep it running.

The “force” is the lifting force of the balloons

The “power” is the combined lifting force

8. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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The “power” is the combined lifting force

No, it isn't. That's what Dana is talking about. You need to learn basic energy terms.

9. ### JustcurioustwoWell-Known Member

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0 The please teach me basic energy terms. Better yet, pick apart the machine design & tell me why it can not work.
I'm stuck on this, please un-stick me
I have reattached the drawing for your review

Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
10. ### s.weinbergWell-Known MemberEngineeringClicks Expert

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Power is energy over time.

We've explained to you why the machine won't work, but you need a basic understanding of force, work, energy and power to understand.